Podcast The Real Dirt

Toklahoma: Growing Cannabis in Oklahoma

ep 80 Toklahoma Growing Cannabis

In this episode of The Real Dirt Podcast, Chip talks to Darryl Souza and Chris Bane of Cultivate Colorado and Cultivate OKC

Combined, Darryl and Chris have been in hundreds of grows and have seen how cannabis is grown, right and wrong, indoor and outdoor, so they certainly know how to cultivate high-quality cannabis.

Tune in as they talk about the best practices for growing cannabis in Oklahoma, which lights, soils, and nutrients are best and a whole lot more juicy information.

I feel like I have this great opportunity to pass on this legacy of knowledge that we have developed through my personal journey. – Chip Baker

Download The Episode Companion For This Episode

Some Topics We Discussed Include

0:16 – The voice behind the real dirt podcast
5:40 – Cultivate Colorado and OKC
8:47 – Typical 200 amp grow room
19:35 – Ganja in Oklahoma City
29:22 – Secret of success of grow rooms

People Mentioned / Resources

Connect with Darryl Souza and Chris Bane

Connect with  Chip Baker


Chip Baker: It has happened once again you have reached The Real Dirt Podcast with Chip Baker, the semi-regular podcast where we speak of cannabis, hemp, and all things ganja. Welcome again, my friends.

The Voice behind The Real Dirt Podcast 

You know I enjoyed this podcast. I talked to so many people all over the country and all over the world, and I appreciate you guys listening to me. Man, I’ll tell you it’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever done. I’ve met so many cool people through this podcast. The genuine friendship people have brought me over this podcast has been pretty incredible. And so I want to thank all of you who listen to me, and you know we were looking at some of the stats he other day and this time is the type of stuff kind of hard to read and put together but man we got like, maybe like 30,000 people may download this episode. And that number is incredible to me because as you’re listening to this, you’re one of maybe 30,000 people in the country that are interested in cannabis and ganja and hemp. And, you know, I know there are many millions more people that are talking about it and many millions of more people that I think about it, but you guys are, the core group of this industry. 

We haven’t been able to advertise to get this podcast to work and so like a podcast, like, let’s just pick some random stuff like cereal, that’s a This American Life or those are major podcasts, which I love. You know, they advertise they have advertising dollars. We can’t do that, and the government won’t let us Facebook won’t let us just really hard to advertise. But that doesn’t matter to us because we just want to speak to ganja people and hemp people. And so we have marketed this podcast to you via trade shows, word of mouth, an extensive active Facebook and social media pages Instagram, Facebook, and that’s how we’ve gotten all you guys here more than likely maybe there’s some other way. 

But word of mouth, you know hey man, you heard this podcast, Real Dirt Chip Baker– [inaudible] you that podcast, you know that type of stuff. Just Facebook engagements and Instagram engagements we have a fairly large Instagram following between Cultivate Colorado, Grower Soil, The Real Dirt podcast that cumulatively it’s like, 60,000 people or something, somehow want to know what we have to say. 

So you’re one of the few there’s not that many cannabis licenses in the US and chances are if you’re listening to this, you are own a cannabis license ‘Hey you all, or you work for a cannabis company grow Joe’s and grow Jane’s out there, budtenders, accountants, lawyers, what have you? Are you want to be in the cannabis industry? Our hardcore, you all hardcore group man, I just want to give it up to you. Because it is all growers, all business people, all weed enthusiasts that are listening to The Real Dirt podcast. And if I can ask all of you just to do one thing because I really want to spread the word I want to spread the word about cannabis, I want to spread the word about hemp and ganja and how it’s changing the world, and it’s been changing the world for years. 

I want to spread the word about hemp and ganja and how it's changing the world, and it's been changing the world for years. - Chip Baker Click To Tweet

But you know, we really are on this like precipice of an incredible international change with cannabis. I’m not sure what’s gonna happen with it, but no one can see the future. I want to ask you guys, and please get a friend that hasn’t listened to the podcast and ask people if they listen to podcasts and recommend The Real Dirt podcast. The more people we interact, the better we get. We’re a team here, man, we really are. You guys, I’m just the voice here. The people that have on the show, they’re the voice that the people that decided for some reason that they wanted to be involved in ganja and I happen to be friends with them or heard their story and we got them on here. We’re the just the voice, and you guys really are the action. So please, if you haven’t subscribed to The Real Dirt podcast on iTunes, please do. 

If you haven’t joined us on Instagram, or Facebook, The Real Dirt podcast, please, please do. We’d love to have you there. We’d love your interaction. Say what’s up I’m on there all the time. I’m on the forklift picking up the soil. I’m on Instagram. I’m in a garden looks really fucking cool. Take a picture of that I’m on Instagram. So sometimes when you guys are commenting on our Instagram page, I’ll actually be in some of the largest gardens in the world. I’ll be in the presence of some of the smartest cannabis brains in the world, and or maybe even just the highest quality or the coolest people, man. I mean 100% so, just know you guys are part of this tribe with ganja tribe, The Real Dirt podcast. Thanks for listening. Enjoy this next episode of The Real Dirt.

Cultivate Colorado and OKC 

Hey, this is Chip from The Real Dirt. Oh, I’m coming to you live from Oklahoma City. OKC, as we like to call it. That’s right feels like Mexico today. It’s hot and humid. Such a nice afternoon and this evening have been very pleasant. You know, we’ve moved down here several months ago to establish a bunch of other businesses. We have another Cultivate Colorado; we have a Cultivate Oklahoma now; we are in two different states and servicing people all over. So yeah, I’m sorry I haven’t had most regular episodes, but that’s what I’ve been doing. We’ve been opening up our newest grow store in Oklahoma. If you haven’t heard, Oklahoma is pretty awesome. I know there are lots of stereotypes about this place, but let me tell you the coolest people, nicest people we’ve only run into a handful jackass. And you know, that just happens you run into some jackasses here, but man we have joined like some incredible groups. 

We went to a women’s cannabis event this past weekend. Man, it was this Lakeside event that was maybe like a small maybe like 100 people or something where there. I met some cool people that do cannabis and comedy. There was a classroom there where they were educating people on how to make their medicinal products and how to grow cannabis how to grow their own personal cannabis. It was a really great man met some great people, some transplants from all over, some local Oklahomans, being cannabis events are happening all the time here. It’s like it’s everything so brand new and other states that had previous cannabis culture that was just like darkness and hiddenness that accompany cannabis when it was illegal. In Oklahoma, I just don’t really see it. I mean, I know there was some sort of cannabis cultivation here but meaning the hydroponic industry we as we call it because you know, I own grow stores, cultivatecolorado.com, cultivateokc.com now, if you needed to grow gear, grenades, blight, soil, whatever it may bring us up there and get a commercial account, free delivery all over. Just a little plug. 

Anyway, so I only own the stores, and I’ve been involved in this industry for years make potting soil made all kinds of stuff lights, fertilizer, nutrients, you know, I have a pulse on who’s buying, who’s selling, what’s going on. And man Oklahoma has blown up as far as sales and the hydro industry. There are dozens of shops that have opened up here if you’re late for the party. I don’t know if I’d show up here. For everybody else, it increases the volume of sales here. In those previous stores, there was a solo store here. I think they’re called Oklahoma Organic Garden Supply or OKC Organics. Maybe that’s what it is. Their longtime local store. They seem like cool people. I stopped in their store, check them out, their parking lots packed and that they used to be the only game in town, now they’re not, there are dozen more stores, everybody’s doing good business. So you know, it’s not like it’s flooded.

Typical 200 amp Grow Room 

You know, it may flood the whole thing that may happen, but that’s what happened in Colorado anyway, so many stores opened up that it just kind of flooded out the market for most people. We at Cultivate, we got a superior staff and surprise, supply, superior knowledge on how to grow. Grow it up, man, so if you ever got a question, just walk into one of our shops, give us a call and ask for Jacob or Jimmy or Isaac, man, any of those guys can help you out and the numerous others, all of our employees, they’re just incredible, totally stellar. Got a question just to ask, but I’m kind of rambling here. So we’ve moved to Oklahoma to open up some grow stores. We’ve received a little bit of confrontation over the whole outsiders’ thing, but not really. Most people have just been ultra-cool to us. We’ve met some great people. 

My potting soil company, Growers Soil, we started up in DC here started distributing product down here have met growers and grow stores from all over the state in Ohio and man all type, you know ganja attracts all kinds of people. That’s one of the things I love about it. The cultural anthropological side of it is just incredible to me. And we’ve met just all kinds of people, you know, wanting growers soilless products. It’s a high porosity mix, it’s made from peat, cocoa, and perlite holds a little bit more moisture than say your standard high porosity max. But you know, that’s better for you better for the plant, it’s easier to water and you still retain all of the air fill porosity and cation-exchange rate and nutrient exchange rate with it. But people from all walks of life for buying the soil, and it’s cool. 

Last week I loaded up some people, you know, they were ranchers, they had ranch trucks, cattle, had cattle feeders in the back of the truck and we wedged some soil between the cattle feeders and, you know, they had ganja growing plants. I’ve met engineers that we’ve loaded pallets of soil up into their small little Toyota FJ’s you know who you are, that’s right. We’ve talked to real estate agents out there because [inaudible] you don’t want to buy a home down here and get a great real estate agent that we met through the cannabis community. It’s been really cool, man. 

Things about Oklahoma. You know, Oklahoma, small town, USA. It is not in California. It is not, you know, Oregon, Washington. It’s not Las Vegas. It’s not Denver even though Colorado is just right. Right there. It’s a far more Southern and rural community even here in Oklahoma City. You know most of Oklahoma City is ag land. So I’ve been told you know, it’s a huge city 600 square miles or something like that. Six hundred thousand people here don’t quote me on any of those stats you Oklahomans that know what the stats are you can post on our page, you know, the Facebook page that I was wrong about these, but still it’s really big. But the cannabis scene is a new man. So it’s not that’s out of it’s not so big. 

Now I know there are some big rooms out there we’re selling big lights and big soil to prominent grows out there—lots of rock wool, lots of nutrients, lots of soil, big lights to 300 lights. We had a customer call yesterday at 70,000 square feet and had some trim pros and one monitor trim pros and whatnot. And there are some big people out here, but most of the people here got 200 to 400 amps of power to grow inside. Now let’s break that down, so 200 amps, that’s going to roughly get you 12,000 watts no matter how you do it led 315 or 1000 watts. Down here, you’re gonna need about a six-ton AC, maybe get away with a little bit less. That’s where most of your energy consumption is going to go. You’re going to have some fans and some dehumidifiers too, and you gotta have that dehumidifier. 

Let’s break down a typical 200 amp grow room. Now there’s a couple of ways to do this one. You can just have one room of 12,000 watts. That 12,000 watts can be cooled by six tons of AC. The way we get that math is we take 12 and multiply it times .5 because it’s .5 tons per light to cool the light down. Now, this means that you have perfect insulation; you have spray foam insulation cement walls. If you don’t have that, then then you know you should do .75, instead of .5. If you’re out in the plains, if you’re someplace really sunny, then you can just bust up your AC equation a little bit. So 12,000 watts, six times. Now you can put these watts in 315, right? And you can get, what is that crazy math? That crazy math is like 38 315, which you would crush it with 38 315 on 12,001 instead of 12,000 watts if you don’t know, about 315 checks them out. Love that sunlight 315 for sure. You could also do it another way you could do with the 600 watts. And let’s see what the math is that’s you have 2600 watts in there. So it doesn’t matter. 

It’s all the same AC, and my point to this whole thing is those are really small grow rooms. You can grow some great weed in those 200 hands grow rooms. Now they’re not the biggest grow rooms in the world, but who cares? You can go great weed in those small rooms getting roomed to slow up you got stuff to do you can put it together like it’s a nice man. You got twice that size 400 amps because that’s the other common size 200 amps, 400 amps, 600 amps, most people have 200 and 400 amps here in Oklahoma right now they’re, you know licenses are easy to get, so people have just gotten the license for whatever space and there are people with huge build-outs here, don’t get me wrong. 

So my point is you know with that 200 amps man you can you know have 12,000 watts, or you can put it on the flip which means you know you have 12,000 watts on flour for 12 hour period today 7 am to 7 pm, and then 7 pm to 7 am you have another 12,000 watts in another room on flower every day. That’s how you maximize your wattage their news, and you know that way you 24,000 watts running over a 24 hour period of time, which is a great great way to do it flip it man flip, flip it. And with a 400 amp service, you get to do about the same thing. You have to have more AC, and you have more lights. 

Now there are efficient ways to like to crank those numbers, but it doesn’t matter if you’re using LEDs or 315s like both of those are useful and efficient watt per square foot. The thousand-watt double-ended still are the most effective per watt, per unit measurement of heat to light a room. So if you don’t believe me, then just look at the math. Ganja grown is all about math. It is there—no reason not to use LEDs if you want to. I mean LEDs and 315s are expensive. So double-ended thousands, and they’re just so cheap, but just as effective even more so in many circumstances. So you’re going to have all these great small rooms growing small amounts of ganja, and I believe that Oklahoma is going to crush it. 

Now there’s a bunch of farmers out there that have gotten licenses that are going to grow this stuff in the fields that have gotten dubious seeds, and auto flowers and dubious clones and nobody knows what’s going to go on this year because nobody’s growing weed outside in Oklahoma ever really not like this. I mean, you know, in the shadows and this or that. But, of course, there are some people out there that have been doing it, but not the acres of ganja that’s going to go on here. 

Chip predicts that Oklahoma City is explicitly going to become one of the gadget capitals of the country, at least for a little while. The extraction that’s going to start to happen here because there’s all this biomass is going to be pretty incredible. So many large companies are moving here because the opportunities take their current technology they developed and other countries like Colorado or California or Washington or Oregon or Nevada, they’re able to take those like, you know, expensive technologies with that they’ve put just tons of resources and bring them into Oklahoma, man, it’s going to change things. It is, you know, going to make Oklahoma a hotspot, and we already feel it. I said it earlier today, and you know, I’m an open-minded dude, for sure, and full of contradictions. That’s what happens when you’re open-minded. 

Right, but man, Oklahoma City could be like, very Amsterdam like easily. The lack of attitude over business and laws. They just want a straightforward registration form. It’s, you know, it’s a pro-business state for good or bad, is a diamond in the rough man. That’s what I’m going to say and, man, we’re gonna work hard to educate people, we’re gonna work hard to help people build their grow rooms, we’re gonna have seminars I mean I’m stoked to be down here. I feel like I have this great opportunity to pass on this legacy of knowledge that we have developed through my own personal journey through cultivate garden supply through growers potting soil. It’s going to blossom, man. It’s gonna blossom just like these flowers were grown in our basements.

Ganja in Oklahoma City 

Boom. So, tell me about Oklahoma weed all my friends say, because man, I’ll tell you I have some of the headiest friends in the world. Oh my god, I got some heady friends. You know, they want to know what the weeds like here, and of course they all think they have the best weed they grow the best weed, you know, and some of them do let my buddy over there critic deadly talking tree farms up a humble man he grows some pretty dank weed. Some other friends over it like Terrapin Station they’re in Colorado wow man they do a really good job, and you know places like Wolf Pack over there in Colorado in Denver like they curate lots of fun ganja. My boys bloom down there and Pueblo. Man, they are all going great weed, and you know all my friends within those organizations are there they like so much like [inaudible] here’s what the weeds like in Oklahoma. There are many dispensaries in town; there are medical dispensaries.

Cannabis costs $40 to $55.8. We’re doing extreme market research here, going to different the dispensary is to buy medical cannabis. You know, it’s $40 to $55 most of it. Now I don’t know the story behind the [inaudible], but most of it appears it looks a lot like a greenhouse and outdoor from Northern California, Colorado, Oregon, or Washington. You know, it looks like a lot of outdoor Oregon weed, seems like kind of what I see, and I’m not saying that they got weed from any of those states at all. I’m just saying it looks like that. Okay, I don’t know the story behind that because I have no idea what people are doing. But you know, I see weed all over the world, and I’m almost like a geo-located for ganja bruh. I can tell you where it’s grown nearly a lot. Maybe not completely 100% accurate, man. I got the skills on that one. 

There’s been some tremendous indoor weed we’ve seen here. You know you can tell when it hasn’t been processed heavily like stuck into a bag or vacuum-sealed bag or rolled into a bag or something like that. And then the crystals are still on it, and the hairs still stick out. Like you still, it’s not crushed or trampled or packaged in any way. That’s how you got, you know, local, indoor or outdoor, but that’s hard to get. We’ve seen some locally grown. Okay, see, but we’re smoking it right now; some of it’s good. I’ll tell you, and it’s more humid down here. So there’s a higher terpene profile that you smell the same nugget that maybe would be in Colorado or the plains of Oregon because it’s so dry in those places. So yes, I’m saying the weed is very fragrant here because of that humidity. It’s one of the problems that plague Colorado is so dry, and it’s hard to get that first nose that comes off. Sacrificing cannabis, you know you have to dig into it a little bit. I’ll tell you the other thing is that the nuggets just don’t powder the same way as they do in Colorado like you got to use a grinder, and I just find that makes for superior cannabis product when it just has that little bit more moisture in it. Now Colorado aliens would disagree and be like, your weeds wet, here some wet way. But you know, just a little bit more moisture in it, I prefer it other people do too. Not a lot, just that right amount. I’m not sure what that is, but and you get that here because it’s so humid. It’s where we’re basically in the south, man. You know, a lot of people say Oklahoma City, I say Oklahoma and they’re like, are you in the plains a big dust bowl. It’s like Yeah, I was like fucking 100 years ago, asshole. You know, like, oh, by the way, you live in a teepee, and it’s like, What a fucking jackass. You know.

We’ve heard all that stuff. But a man Oklahoma City starts to like West Oklahoma City and its high plains. Just like southern Colorado, east of Oklahoma City starts to get rolling hills trees, some small mountain ranges, water, river, ponds, and you get all of it, man, lots of water over here. And man, that’s one of the things that draws me to it is there’s lots of water here. Speaking of water, water quality is not the greatest. Most places I have tested it within and around the city, the parts per million have been upwards of 400. The pH is 750. Definitely, our filters are probably recommended. If you’re growing here, if you’re having problems with your crop, get an RF filter. 

Man, the other awesome thing about Oklahoma City is everybody’s talking about organic. Now they’re using this term that’s a marketing term from Elaine Ingham and maybe some other people’s like living soil. And I know it’s like great magic and it just sounds great, but man, it’s really we’re just talking about organically grown weed, organic inputs most grown with water. Now there are all kinds of labs and PFA and sub-cultures of living soil compost tea, and it is man high topic of conversation here we’re like Colorado people won’t talk about it so much in certain pockets and segments people do. But in general, Colorado is not an organic state; it is mostly a hydro state. I sell tons of rock woolen in Colorado, tons, and tons of rock woolen. 

Even though people perceive it to be organic, isn’t cannabis is not a natural product unless it has organic inputs. That means it’s grown with products that we perceive to be organic. And that’s why the popularity of living soil has grown so much here is people want the organic product. There’s living soil, they believe in the magic of it all, and there is a little bit of magic too; there’s a lot of magic to it. It is absolutely one of the biggest topics of conversation, and I love it, man. 

I’m a 25-year vegetarian. I try only to eat organic foods. Milk organic weed doesn’t happen all the time. But I try, and that’s what I want to do. Hands down, some of the best weed I’ve ever had has been organic, outdoor. You know the best weed in the world. I’ll give it to you right now in Northern California, Southern Oregon. With organic full sun outdoor, you cannot be beaten for flavor. Oh my God, unless you’re talking about maybe some properly grown proper light depth from that same region. You just cannot be the flavor of that organic water only product. 

It’s just incredible, and of course, I’ve also seen the flip side of that, and many people’s organic, especially when they go with Inside or living soil inside, the plants just don’t digest the nutrients the same and outside or in greenhouses, they can do it well, and it’s effective. Indoors, they don’t quite digest the nutrients the same, and you often see it in the flesh of the cannabis. People go through all the trouble of having their organic inputs, and they’ve got the labs, and they’ve trade labs with their buddies and compost tea and sprinkling whatever kind of magic on it, but then they can they have to pump so much nutrient in it through these organic methods, that the plant still doesn’t uptake all the nutrition and it’s hard to flush. 

And you know, the truth of the matter getting organic buds to yield indoors, you need larger containers and larger vege-time, and there’s your secret to growing organic indoors is larger containers and larger vege-times. But when you get larger containers and larger vege-times, it’s also harder to flush that product out. So you can get that way with organic indoors those larger containers no problem, I mean maybe problems but you can do it. It just it’s hard to flush man you get those big 10-20 gallon containers man it’s just hard to flush, and it will ash hard and chunky and black even though it’s 100% organic product. So time and place for a technique for it. Absolutely organic can be grown inside; don’t get me wrong. 

But I’m just saying some of the problems with what’s going on with many people’s gardens because I get to see a lot of weed. I go to growers that they don’t look at anybody else’s weed, and they grow tons of weed man, but like they can’t get their head out of their garden, so to speak and I get to go see everybody’s weed. So you know that guy does a great that guy does it Okay, that guy does it awful other I’ll go on the same strains. What is that guy doing a [inaudible], and I get to see the best technique, and I’m not a snob at all. Wait for a second, I’m a total weed snob, but I’m not arrogant about it. If somebody’s got the good shit, I don’t care if it’s grown hydro, then I’ll give it up to a man, and I love hydro by the way. Love it, love it, love it. Man. I also love [inaudible], you know?

The Secret to Success of Grow Rooms 

Alright, I’ve got Darrell and Chris here from Cultivate OKC. We’re putting up our new grow store here, cultivate on, what’s the address here? I don’t even know it yet. It’s a 10th N Meridian, North West 10th Street in Meridian. We’re just building it out right now, it’s full of pallets and drywall dust, and we’re just getting it all going. But as promised, I’m going to give you guys out there a special treat. I’m gonna have Darryl and Chris, who have both seen hundreds and hundreds of successful grow rooms give a little secret of success. So we’re tying of talking about this earlier guys, what’s the most weight we’ve really seen out of a grow room, Darrell?

Darell: I’d say in the high three-pound area per light 4,000 watts.

Chip Baker: We’ve seen higher, but that’s like an attainable regular goal?

Darell: I think that’s an obtainable goal. I’ve heard higher, but you know, I’ve never seen it myself. But the high trees are reachable. And I think anywhere in the mid twos to high twos for a commercial grower on a large scale is obtainable and should be done if you want to be successful.

Chip Baker: Now, Chris has just come here from California to start this Cultivate OKC. What do you think about that? What’s the kind of highest or standard weight you see in indoor grow rooms, Chris,

Chris: I tend to agree with the high trees being what I’ve heard of. Personally, I’ve not seen, but I’ve definitely seen three-pound delight gardens, and it’s obtainable. I think a lot of people are probably in the lower twos working towards that.

Chip Baker: Growing weed is kind of like fishing. It is the biggest fish you catch that day or that year; that’s the fish you catch all the time. You know, and this isn’t hard. I mean a 2.5 ounces a square foot. And if you have 1000 watt light with 25 square feet, I mean, you’re pushing 3.9 pounds at two and a half ounces a square foot. And like when you say it that way, it doesn’t seem like it’s that hard, right? 

Darell: With the right technique, I think it can be done. Definitely.

Chris: If you have enough plants for light, you have a pretty easy chance of hitting those numbers.

Chip Baker: Or enough [31:37 unclear], we were talking earlier, and the legal amount for a home grower here in Oklahoma and in Colorado in many, many states are six plants. And you know, I was speaking to Darryl how it was hard to get that three-pound light with six plants, and he had a scenario where this was possible and regular. Could you explain this to me, Darrell?

Darell: You got to have everything dialed in your temperature, your humidity, and also CO2. And that’s I guess the foundation or the start of it all. From there, genetics plays an important role in the numbers that you’ll be able to hit.

Chip Baker: When you mean, your environment dialed in it pretty much has to be H pack. We’re talking about heating and air.

Darell: Oh, yeah, absolutely. People like to do it on the cheap, but it takes money. No, you got to have the right environment.

Chip Baker: So how do you do it with just six plants?

Darell: Me, personally, I topped them early. I made sure that there would be–

Chip Baker: Let’s start it out at the very beginning. Do you have a clone? How’s the clone come out

Darell: Comes out healthy. Healthy with white roots. It’s the survival of the fittest. So you take more than you need, and then you get rid of the losers, and you keep the winners. That’s how you start off. 

Chip Baker: That’s how you start off. That’s a start off, and then you take your clone, whether it’s a rock wall or whether it’s an arrow cloner and you train planted into what size container?

Darell: You know, I would say from a clone to a 3.5. And then from a 3.5 to a one-gallon. I personally go up to a seven-gallon. Lots of other people do it in different ways. 

Chip Baker: When do you start topping as you put it into those three and a half. And when does the topping start? 

Darell: I top after RC four nodes.

Chip Baker: And so that might be in the four-inch or I mean in the 3.5-inch rise in one gallon?

Darell: That’s usually in the 3.5

Chip Baker: Right? So you top it at 3.5. You transplant it until one gal. Darrell, we had a drone in a three and a half or four-inch pot for some small period of time like a week or ten days. We top it and then put it in a one-gallon pot. How much longer do you grow it after that?  

Darell: I’ve read it for a while, in the one gal yeah, I would say a month sometimes more. You know I don’t do it for a living like some of these other people do, so I’m limited in space. 

Chip Baker: We’re just talking six plants on under how many watts?

Darell: Under 3,630 watts,

Chip Baker: Very small environmental impact, very small electricity bill.

Darell: This is a home grow.

Chip Baker: So you vege it in the one gallon, and then you transplant it into a seven gallon,

Darell: Put it into a seven-gallon, vege it a little bit more there, and then when the plants usually reach about, I would say belly high or waist-high that’s when I flipped them.

Chip Baker: Do you have more than just the initial topping? We topped it when it was in the three and a half-inch container.?

Darell: I do some pre staking and some lower growth throughout the vege to help make the plant symmetrical and as wide as possible. When you’re growing only a few plants, you got to make the most out of the square footage you got. So if you’re not talking and training the plant, it’s really not going to fill out or give you as much colas as you need if you’re trying to actually hit decent numbers.

Chip Baker: What kind of soil and nutrients are you using, or should you suggest people use?

Darell: Currently, I’m using grower’s soil right now.

Chip Baker: Their soilless mix.

Darell: Yeah, their HP max it’s peat, perlite, and cocoa blend, and then I use canna nutrients with a couple, couple different additives.

Chip Baker: Some secret ingredients, so you’re going to be able to divulge this to us today?

Darell: There’s nothing secret about what I do, pretty much follow the recipe. I add Cal mag in there doesn’t matter what brand. Personally, I use the GH Cali magic and then early on throughout vege. I also use some sort of salicylic acid, whether it be a facilitator or solarium. 

Chip Baker: So let’s just get this straight. You read it, and you put in a three and a half-inch pot of growers soil, soilless you use canon nutrients, you do top it when it’s 10 inches tall, you put it in a one-gallon container of growers soil and continue to use canna, you vege it for about a month how tall does it get then?

Darell: In the vege fear?

Chip Baker: In that one-gallon pot?

Darell: In that one-gallon pot, you know it’s probably up to my mid-thigh, I guess.

Chip Baker: Darrell puts his hand out like you can see it.

Darell: Yeah, do about mid-thigh. I would say that’s like what? Two and a half three feet something like that.

Chip Baker: Then you transplant it into the seven-gallon that also has the grow or soilless blend in then you continuing using coca I mean Canna right and you vege it for another–

Darell: Veget for another couple weeks. You know honestly, I don’t–

Chip Baker: His plants are big. 

Darell: Yeah, I don’t adhere to a time schedule. It’s more about when the plants are ready. Because if you try to rush it, you’re gonna sacrifice yield for it. You know if you’re going to be patient and wait the extra week or two, it’s gonna pay off for you, and the same is true for when you cut it down. Just wait till it’s actually finished.

Chip Baker: Yeah, and that takes just a little bit technique, but don’t just say is done at 56 days or 64 days like really look at the plant and make your own judgment.

Don't just say it is done at 56 days or 64 days like really look at the plant and make your own judgment. - Chip Baker Click To Tweet

Darell: Yeah, absolutely. And as you grow the same strain over and over again, you learn it better. You get better quality, better yields. It’s like anything, you know, the more you practice it, the better you get.

Chip Baker: What kind of lights?

Darell: I mean, personally, I’ve got Gavita 750s, and then I have DLI 315, 2 double-ended on each side, and down the center of it I do the 315s.

Chip Baker: All right, well, thanks, Darrell, for that enlightening information and secrets to how to pull a big weight on just six legal plants. And that was Darrell Sousa from Cultivate Colorado, telling us how to max out six plants. Many states around the country have six plant legal limits, so does Oklahoma. So if you’re interested more about how to [inaudible] over a pound a plant on six plants with just 3,600 watts stop into Cultivate Oklahoma, Cultivate OKC that’s on Northwest 10th Street in Meridian. We’re open almost every day for many hours of the day randomly. 

There’s more than one way to do it, though. We see tons of people growing different ways, a million ways to do it. And Chris, the manager here at OKC, he’s got an alternative method for you. So Chris will put another secret to success on how to build a garden that will produce quality cannabis and yield.

Chris: If plant count is not an issue, I would run basically a plant per square foot, and I would vege the plants out to about a foot tall, and then I would initiate flowering that probably would take about maybe 10-12 days of vege. And then I wouldn’t switch the light cycle to 12 12 and begin flowering. When I initiate flowering, I would go back and I would clean up the bottom third of the plant. Remove all the branches nodes, clean that part up, stake them, or use trellis netting. Just basically try and keep the canopy as even as possible and control lateral growth and just shape the plant depending on what strain you’re growing. It takes practice to know how to prune the plant, but just you could basically go for one to two tops of the plant, easily pull three-pound yield. 

Chip Baker: Easily. So this is my favorite C of green plant lit method. You know the real key to this is getting those numbers of clients. Right, and you’re talking one plant per square foot that’s 25 plants basically per life. And the secret is to really have a bunch of healthy clones. How do you go about like organizing that face, the very beginning phase of getting your clones in your early vege?

Chris: It’s good to have more clones than you need. When you start that way, you can call the weak ones. I would say, up potting starting with; I like to go into five-inch pots from the cutting vege them in those– typically for the first two weeks, that’s where most of my vege activity occurs. And then I transplanted three-gallon pots usually wait a few days and then initiate flowering.

Chip Baker: Now the importance of using the five-inch pot many people try to squeeze skip this first transplant but the importance of it is so you can do exactly what Chris said is what call the week plans. It also consolidates your vegetative area, so that you can have more plants in a smaller area and you can keep all of your flowering lights and flower power How tall are these plants and I want to get some real good specifics for our listeners here how tall these plants in five-inch pots before they go in into the three-gallon pot?

Chris: I usually let them get to be about 10 inches tall before transplanting and then wait a few days until they grow a little bit taller. Usually, I’ll see roots already coming through the bottom of the pot, the larger three-gallon pot by that point, because the root basses are fairly well established in the five-inch pot.

Chip Baker: Yeah, that’s an important factor there. When you see the roots coming out of the bottom of that five-inch pot, that’s about the right time to start thinking about transplanting up into your three-gallon pot.

Chris: And from that point, I don’t like to vege that long in the three-gallon pots because I don’t want them to get root bound immediately. I don’t want to get rebound while I’m still like trying to get the plants ready to flower. And that way, they have plenty of room for the next eight weeks to nine weeks in their three gallons home.

Chip Baker: Right You know, my opinion, the perfect scenario is to get the whatever container you’re flowering in a two-gallon, a three-gallon, a seven gallon, a 10 gallon, a 20 gallon, is after that first two or three weeks of flower, the roots have pretty much grown most of what they’re going to do, they’ll continue growing, but at that point, that’s when you really want the container heavily rooted not rebound necessarily, but heavily rooted. Do you agree with that?

Chris: I don’t like to vege entirely in the pot that they’re going to stay in and through the flowering process. I like to move them into different size pots.

Chip Baker: Yeah. And do you promote fabric pots, geo pots, hard pots, what do you think, Chris?

Chris: Geopots. I think they’re the best quality fabric pod on the market. 

Chip Baker: Yeah, absolutely, geo pots are great, fabric pots are great, a little bit hard to transplant in. But hey, I’ll give a little transplant secret. If you’ve got it even you already know this aggressive, got a three-gallon or five-gallon or 10 gallons or whatever geo pot or fabric pot. You take a correlating plastic pot of three gallons, five gallons, 10 gallons, and you cut the bottom off with a hacksaw, so it’s open-ended. You place it inside your geo pot, you dump the soil in or soilless medium and then you pull out the plastic liner.

Chris: It’s nice. I’ve done that on a larger scale, but I’ve never done it with the smaller ones. 

Chip Baker: Yeah. Oh, works best with the smaller ones really. 

Chris: Great trick!

Chip Baker: Pass that duchy over this way, Chris That’s right. Man, you know, we’re always trying to learn here at Cultivate Colorado, but we see so many people come in with different growing methods. And now we’re down into Oklahoma. We see so much so many different types of growing methods that people started. Many of them involved led us in a vertical garden; can you make a comment on that, Chris?

Chris: Vertical gardening? It made me think of how much more efficient Darell’s method of doing six plants is vs. some of the older methods like the crusty bucket method, surrounding plants, basically with vertically hung light bulbs.

Chip Baker: Dangerous, they should call that burn your ass method, not a crusty bucket or your skin looks crusty because you burn yourself so much.

Chris: I’ve seen it work well. But the vege time is a lot longer than what Darrell was describing.

Chip Baker: Yeah, that sounds where everybody loses it. That’s for sure and I know Darrell yesterday, I was like, I don’t care about vege, but it’s one of the most important things to me and to any grower because it costs twice as much to vege in days and in power costs more money to badge than it does to flower. So if you’re begging for six weeks, you might be in trouble.

Chris: I also think the lighting that he was describing using the 315s LECs that’s gonna blow away almost any LED.

Chip Baker: Totally, man. I mean, the 315 really is the most superior grow light right now.

Chris: I’d agree with that. What’s like something like the kind of light you’d see down near the equator or something.

Chip Baker: Is right it has a perfect spectrum? You can change the bulbs out easily. There’s the 4200 and 3200-kelvin bulb ones for flower ones for a vege. Many people like to mix the spectrums, believe Darell’s garden. It was a 657.50 flex, which is a double-ended ball double-ended product Gavita phantom. They both make this product, [inaudible] make this product and then he combined it with an additional 315 next to it.

Chris: I’m kind of amazed you can get that kind of yield off of such little wattage, so very impressive.

Chip Baker: And it’s all that canopy; it’s just his making sure your canopy is full. That’s what we’re talking about here. Square foot gardening and you came in it really easily have one plant per square foot and the two or three-gallon pie. And what Darrell is doing is he was counting koalas per square foot instead of plants per square foot to get his weight or his yield.

Chris: I mean, I’ve also had a lot of success running higher plant count per square foot, like four plants per square foot and flipping them even smaller. I mean, it’s all how many plants do you want to manage and how big is your vege.

Chip Baker: In hydro, the smaller plant that’s work way better, that’s for sure.

Chris: And I think in scenarios like that, I would be running rock wall. It’s just easier to manage. You can grow a large plant in a four by four block. You can cram quite a few of them and you can stack them on larger blocks.

Chip Baker: You can throw them away and replace them easily. You can fly and drain them; you can drip them; you can hand water them.

Chris: You can definitely get great yields off of even more plants per square foot with smaller canopy, probably a quicker amount of time with, you’d be spending more on supplies but the quicker return on your flip.

Chip Baker: Absolutely. And you know, I love all things indoor, outdoor light depth greenhouse growing, but I really do love flood and drain, hydroponic style growing, whether it’s cocoa or rock wall, the plants just start to develop this root system where they just really suck up the water and they just crave those multiple waterings. But the secret to that really is having more plants than you need, recognizing when there’s some that don’t take to it. And after that second week of flower, you know, throw out all the ones that haven’t responded, replace them, right have a nice even canopy. And that’s really what makes those high impact numbers to your green gardens work. There is no whoop dee doo in the canopy. Make sure you have extras. If your flower, you’ve got some that don’t respond to flowering, you throw those away and you put new ones in.

Chris: Yeah, don’t have passion projects. If the plants are not working out, get rid of it, it’s best to start with a better plan.

Chip Baker: The interesting thing you just mentioned is the passion project is growers like to grow, and they’ll see a sick plant or re-vege plant. They want to take care of it, they want it to be this great thing and then like they do that, and it becomes this, like, false sense of accomplishment. It’s like they spent two months trying to get this plan together. And again, they look nice and happy it is but they should have just chopped it down, thrown it away and started all over.

Chris: Yeah, I agree. It’s I’ve definitely, in my early days of growing, definitely had my share of passion projects, and I don’t do that anymore. It’s best not to be emotionally attached to a plant.

Chip Baker: Right? You can always grow another one, especially when they’re clones, right?

Chris: Just make more than you need.

Chip Baker: And that’s why stormtroopers are so great because like they’re all clones if some get eliminated, then you just kick them to the side and there’s– What? The Stormtrooper just like it, right? 

Chris: Totally. That’s a good analogy.

Chip Baker: He Boba Fett did something good in the world. Right? Good for the world of science fiction anyway. It’s taught us about clones. Yeah, so there’s a million ways to do it. That’s kind of the point. If, however, man, if you ditch the magic and just look at the math, the plants per square foot, the nutrients the way the plant grows, the simple growth strategy and growth habits of the plant if you can dominate that know how that works and that’s how you’re going to get the highest quality and the highest yield garden. All right, Chris. I’m so hey, we’re now open here, are almost open here in Oklahoma, OKC, is there anything you want to say to the Oklahomans and other people in the surrounding states that might be coming to visit us here?

Chris: Yeah, definitely come on down. We’re gonna have some tip sheets on different methods of growing to help you with different types of methods, whether it be hydroponics or organics, we will have basically a formula for success. 

Chip Baker: They are gonna direct instruction, not necessarily theory. We’re going to give you like ways to succeed. There’s lots of magic in the cannabis industry and there’s a lot of snake oil salesmen out there, but what we really want to see is we want to see this plant propagate. We want to cultivate ourselves while we’re doing it, man, we want to see it on a great weed. So come down, chat with us, and we’ll help you maximize your system and help you build your dream grow room the best way we can. Thanks for taking the time out of the sweaty day, Chris. I guess we’re gonna go loads more pallets up.

Chris: Thanks for letting me come inside the nice air-conditioned building.

Chip Baker: Yeah, that’s right. Get back out there. Get back out.

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